BoyandGirlScouts.com – News, Opinion, Advice

Justin Says:

28 January 2009 at 3:48 pm.

That’s going to shut out volunteers for sure.

admin Says:

28 January 2009 at 3:55 pm.

I guess most outings are within half an hour of medical care so it doesn’t affect even overweight Boy Scouts and Scouters that much. I’m out of line with these requirements, but I’m still not against them. I do think the BSA should stand for physically fit and being so may mean the difference between getting out okay or getting out at all. I just need to kick my rear in gear and try to represent the values we all swear by each week.

Karen604 Says:

30 January 2009 at 1:53 pm.

I know several people who have been involved in Philmont rescues. Not all patients have lived. Often the adults are not as prepared for the back country hikes physically as the youth are. At Philmont you must think about how steep and narrow some of the trails are. Four people on a litter might not be possible at some points. As a side note most folks are not prepared for the high altitude of Philmont and it takes quite a toll on them.

In our own council, where Council and most District events take place with superior medical services we have had two deaths during major events. I am not sure how preventable either were. I do know that taking care of hypothermia, heat stroke, sprains, fractures and asthma attacks are regular events. The Medical Crews are expert at removal of foreign bodies from eyes and splinters too. an ambulance is usually part of the set-up.

These things are not always available. I know that I would not want to be the leader that ruined an event for the youth by not being as physically and mentally prepared as possible. That is not fair to the youth.

I think about things that you cannot prevent like the electrical accident at Nat’l Jamboree in 2005. The troops from Alaska Turned around and went home before the Jamboree got going because of it. All of the time, energy and fundraising that must have gone into that trip…and it evaporated.

We need to remember that we should be in scouting for the youth not ourselves. If you are in this for yourself GET OUT!

Francis Montry Says:

8 February 2009 at 4:29 pm.

There are really only two questions for the National office. Why the insistance on using a very old system that does not determine the true fitness of an individual? And what are the options for a muscular person who is perfectly fit but falls outside the BMI chart?

Scott Tollefson Says:

13 February 2009 at 6:06 pm.

If the hight / weight table is the standard, why see a physician? No matter what he says, it won’t matter. How about fat calabrations / percentages. My son is 6″3 265 [5% body fat] and could toss those guys from national around like a rage doll, but he can’t go? “I guess good.” He’d rather be in the BWCA anyways. Guess that’s why he’s out of scouting now, too fit.
Food for thought; How about we hold the “National” leaders to this policy for the National Jamboree? From what I saw in 2005, there be a lot less puggy SUV riders in attendance if we do.

PvZ Says:

10 March 2009 at 2:27 am.

This is nuts. Guidelines are welcome, not mandatory policy. Risk and ability to participate should a matter between the boy / parent and trained medical staff, not an arbitrary table. This will create more bad press and drive Scouting into the ground.

Mr. G. Says:

12 April 2009 at 8:54 pm.

This summer I attended Philmont for the second time. I am 59 years old and experienced in back packing as well as road biker. However, I constantly battle with my weight. I can tell you that these maximums are very generous in comparison to what your ideal weight range should be. If you are over the maximum you have a serious weight problem and you better face it and stop making comments about doctors and medical staff not being “scout like” when they tell you sorry, you can’t go. I don’t understand why so many scout leaders want to argue about these requirements even if the activity is not “high adventure”. These are not strict requirements and they are for your own good as well as the boys you are in charge of. You look around any district camporee and you can see why scouting is concerned about the health and welfare of its leaders. Obesity is epidemic among scout leaders for some reason. When you start making exceptions you start down a slippery slope that has all kinds of pit falls, some of them legal. Take for example 5′8″ and a maximum of 214 lbs. I find it hard to believe that there are many (or any) healthy individuals out there that are 5′8″ and over 214lbs. I have a feeling that most of you scoffing at this chart as if some secretary at the National Headquarters made it up are probably wondering how you are going to make weight. If you can come up with a qualified medical expert who wants to challenge the validity of this requirement I would be most interested in seeing that happen. I am sure that procedures could be put in place to make the rare exception for that person who may be a very large athlete but is in excellent shape. However, it would have to be more than his own doctor saying it’s okay for him to go. Come on, what cabbage patch do you think the people in charge of determining these standards were born under.

JC Shepard Says:

17 April 2009 at 1:37 pm.

Scouts ain’t the army, and we ain’t gym class either. Pretty soon all we’ll be doing is playing soccer in the suburbs.

I’ve been hearing about this radical movement, where boys get together on their own and camp in the woods. they usually ask an adult to go with, at least so somebody can drive. it’s called Scouting for Boys. Ever heard of it? nice simple program…

Dave Says:

5 May 2009 at 11:19 am.

I too have been in scouting as a youth and leader for more than 30 years. I know I have a weight problem but I have been to BWCA 6 times and go hiking all the time, I am strong as a horse. But at 5′9 there is no way I will be able to participate anymore. Unfortunately, this too means that many activities are going to be canceled as we already have a troop volunteer problem and if the four main leaders that are above the cuts offs stop attending events the troop will fold. It is not BSA’s business how much anyone weighs. If the doctor approves your participation that should be good enough. My children have been out of scouting for many years and I still volunteer. BSA needs to start recruiting more parents and adult volunteers as the number of active troops will drop dramatically over the next year.

Dawn Armstrong Says:

6 May 2009 at 12:12 am.

My husband has waited many years looking forward to going to Sea Base with our son. Due to some previous health problems now resolved, he gained a lot of weight. Now that the issues are resolved , he has lost 40lb. in the last year,but still was not able to lose enough to go to Sea Base.He is strong as an ox, outswam all the other leaders in the swim test who were under the weight rule, and has no trouble scuba diving or carrying fire dept equipment into a fire. They say it is because the ladders are only weighted to 300lb. Yet, we have been snorkeling in Cozumel, on pontoons, white water rafted, and no one has ever has a problem with a ladder not holding him. A friend of his is 325lb, has a boat he is on every weekend and has also never had a problem. So what is really the issue? Philmont may be strenous because of the altitude. Sea Base is not. Last time our troop went, out cubmaster had just had chemo for cancer, and died less than a year later ,but still had a wonderful time without any issues at Sea Base. This is pure discrimination.
As for the new weight chart, all but one of our cub scout troop would be out, including our cubmaster who has tirelessly given her life to the BSA long after her son was out.
These are my thoughts :

Boy scouts has always been about encouraging youth to take on new challenges. Now the message is “Don’t risk anything”

It is hard enough to get boys and their parents interested now, if you take out the campouts and other outside activities, they definitely won’t stay.

If they think this is going to make people get out and lose the weight to stay in the troop, they are arrogantly dreaming.If it was that easy to lose, we would have already done it.

Everything you can do in boyscouts(white water rafting,snorkeling, campouts, hiking) you can quite honestly do outside boy scouts without anyone questioning your weight(Maybe time to do a national “boycott” or start a new organization).

If they are sooo interested in health, maybe they should start selling fruit instead of popcorn
(Better decrease your plans to make popcorn, Trail’s End-my husband alone sold 5000.00 worth last year-if 60% of the BSA is out…..well sales will be really down.)

Isn’t getting out hiking and stuff helping to lose the weight?

What is next, will they be telling us what we can cook on the campouts, as well?

Admin is correct, people are starting to listen. My husband called the local news-channel 4 wsmv in Nashville and was on it yesterday(still on their website) and ABC called him as well today, so keep your voices going! The local council spokesperson also called and left a message on our answering machine that he would like to speak to him and see what our issue is.

It will be a shame that all these good leaders will be lost-my husband does the archery range at day camp every year, which is outside the 30 min. range, so no more. I won’t be able to go on anything either. It will be sad to leave the scouting organization. We had hoped both our sons would Eagle out.

Chris H Says:

6 May 2009 at 8:41 am.

I have read so many grumbling about this new policy. Get over it people. I am certainly not in perfect condition…slightly overweight but within the new requirements. For anyone who has attended a Scout roundtable, campout, Wood Badge…heck…any Scout event it’s pretty evident that a large number (no pun intended) of Scout leaders are obese. The leaders need to be setting examples for our kids and that even means physical health. I can’t tell you the number of times where I’ve seen adult leaders buckled over trying to catch their breathe, sweating profusely….and that’s from simply walking around a Day Camp.

Hearing “My doctor said I have the heart of a horse.” means nothing to me or the Scouts if your gut pours over your belt buckle and the buttons of your shirt are about to turn into dangerous projectiles.

For all the Scout Leaders that will be affected by these new requirements: Take it as an opportunity to get in shape and even turn it into a Troop activity…Health and Fitness…with YOU being the inspiration.

Walter Underwood Says:

6 May 2009 at 12:36 pm.

The BSA is using the standard definition of obese, a BMI over 30. In the US, 34.3% (let’s call it 1/3) of adults are obese, so this means that roughly 1/3 of adults do not qualify for BSA events outside of a 30 minute emergency response time.

The 30 minute limit is where accepted first aid techniques switch from what we learn in first aid merit badge to “when help is delayed” techniques, generally taught in Wilderness First Aid (WFA).

How do you make exceptions for football lineman? The organization accepting the risk needs to decide it is OK. At Philmont, they have a physician to help make that decision. Note, it is the organization that decides, not the physician.

If your troop is doing high adventure, say a 50 miler, and you decide to include an obese adult, then your troop (and your charter organization) are taking on the risk and the liability. Don’t expect coverage from BSA insurance, because they have already said they won’t take on that risk.

These risks may be to the entire crew, not just the single obese person. Can the crew quickly get off a ridge when a thunderstorm approaches? Would there be additional injuries while evacuating a 300 pound person down to helicopter altitude (usually 7000 ft)?

Personally, I’m delighted by the new rules, even though my BMI is 29.4. Everything I see there is based on widely-accepted practice, with one glaring exception. WFA training should be required for any activity outside the 30 minute limit. Our troop is working hard to meet that. Nearly all our activities (and most of our scout camps) are outside that limit.

BillyOceansEleven Says:

6 May 2009 at 2:17 pm.

This is ridiculous. I was recently scoutmaster for a small LDS troop (we handed over the reins to someone who could dedicate more time to activities, but I’m still involved), and I would not meet the weight requirement (6′0″ maximum 239 lbs). While I could stand to lose a few pounds, I would argue that considering my muscle mass I am hardly obese. I have been with our troop on numerous camps and activities without any issue at all. I could see a policy like this for high adventure treks involving long extended hikes through backcountry, but to say someone my size isn’t fit enough to accompany a troop at a typical BSA summer camp is absurd.

We already have enough problems getting adult volunteers and parents involved in the program. What’s gonna happen when we have to start telling these parents, “I’m sorry, but BSA says you are too fat to volunteer”? We’ll start seeing more kids abandon the program as their parents’ attitudes about Scouting sours, even if we can find other volunteers to fill the gap.

Disgrunteled Scouter Says:

6 May 2009 at 3:34 pm.

The Boy Scouts of America has become a nanny organization telling people what is the right weight for their height. I believe this is incrediby short sighted of BSA National. The height weight table though is not all the problems in the new form.

How many have noted the disparity betweent keep the forms confidential, but share them will
all the adult leaders in the unit. I am unsure of how to do that?

Another big one for me is the insanity of putting a picture release in the medical form that
we are supposed to again keep confidential. Is this assuming everybody is going to say
yes? I guess as if people checked no, who could know? What liability is there is somebody
publishes a picture of a person who checks NO? My Council had no good guidance on this.

Are there people discussing the other defects in the new BSA medical forms and how substantially if changes a 100 year old institution fundamentally?

-DS

Joseph Quintiliani Says:

6 May 2009 at 3:57 pm.

I think it is About time , I was in BSA for over 20 years ,I was a Scoutmaster for 12 years & I have done over 19 , 50 mile Canoe with on being a 100 miler. There was No way that I would Allow someone not Fit to partake in a High Adventure Trip . Even when we did Tail Gate Camping or Summer Camp the problem of Over Weight Leaders CAUSED Problems by not being Able to Keep up with the troop , & the comments the kids would make are not to be listed here.

Yes you may lose a few leaders , but it will HELP the Young Boys as it did about Adults Not Smoking .

If the Adults are Crying about the Weight Problem = Lose the Weight , I was a Smoker . I Quit smoking .

From a Adult Leader with 950 miles of Canoe Trips , 5 =50 miler Hiking , A Silver Beaver , & a Vigil in OA

Get Over It and Move on

Walter Underwood Says:

6 May 2009 at 7:21 pm.

Disgrunteled Scouter says: How many have noted the disparity between keep the forms confidential, but share them with all the adult leaders in the unit. I am unsure of how to do that?

This turns out to be straightforward. If you are a tour leader, you have a responsibility to care for the Scouts on that trip, so you need to read their med forms. You do not need to read anyone else’s med form. If you aren’t leading a trip, don’t read the med forms.

The Scoutmaster should periodically read all the med forms in case something happens at a meeting.

The med forms need to be available to the adult leaders, but kept confidential.

Michael Pagelkopf Says:

7 May 2009 at 10:45 am.

What I am finding interesting is the focus on Part of the Form being associated with High Adventure (only). The wording is “Part B is required with parts A anc C for any event that exceeds 72 hours, a resident camp setting, OR when the nature of the activity is strenuous and demaning, such as service projects, work weekends, or high-adventure treks”.
High-adventure trek are objective in nature when using a BSA facility, if you don’t pass the criteria you don’t participate. What are the consequenes when the unit creates their own high-adventure or does a service project or has a work weekend.
I think the overall impact is only going to be felt with BSA High-Adventure opportunity.

RB Says:

7 May 2009 at 4:45 pm.

I do feel the anger of all involved. It seems that for the most part, the people that are outright for this are simply looking at weight. I did see few, but very few comments about height vs. weight. There was an excellent point about what’s the difference between carrying out a 5’6” 250 pounder versus a 6’ 250 pounder. There were also thankfully comments about a person’s build.

I myself was in the military before they started using the BMI cheat sheets. They used to take a circumference around the neck, one around the waist and somehow compare this with your height to determine your maximum weight. And there was still an option to use the calipers and sampling the various spots on the body to determine your body fat percentage. The only time I had this method used on me was in junior high school. Anyway, while in the military, I was quite slim and trim, and would run 5K’s in twenty-three to twenty-five minutes. The least I ever weighed in the military was 226lbs. I’m 5’10” tall. This is the maximum allowed weight for my height. To get into their recommended weight range, I believe you’d see the skin and bones effect, ribcage and all. The maximum on the recommended weight is 188lbs. Even in high school when I played football and baseball, I weighed 200-210lbs. BMI is BS. I’m all for toning down and currently could use some myself. But it’s disheartening knowing I’ll never make their recommended range and odds are very much against even making their maximum acceptance. This is ignorance on their part to simplify this to the BMI table. Outside of the world of pencil necks, this chart is pure bull.

Dawn Armstrong Says:

7 May 2009 at 6:21 pm.

Just wanted to let you know ,my husband got on the news here and they surprised the local council with an interview( I don’t think that went over well with them) . We were concerned about the part that mentions using the chart “ANY TIME the event is outside 30 min emergency treatment”-this would put our day camp(at which my husband is the archery instructor), canoe trips etc. in that category.They have called us now and state this part b on the form is only to be used on events over 72hrs. -they are saying it does not count for anything else and that we are misinformed. I read to her word for word the rest of the paragraph- the “or when the nature of the acitivity is strenuous and demanding ,such as service projects, work weekends or high adventure treks” and asked her who and when determines if the activity falls into this category.It also states “such things such as jamborees”, which locally would be less than 72hrs(so why mention it then?) She could not tell me and said she would call national and try to get some more information. She was basically saying that we are reading this wrong. I told her that if we were, there were many others interpreting it that way as well. I also asked her what the point was about 72hrs-was this some magic number that suddenly your weight becomes an issue. Her response to that was that she didn’t know, that national decided all this.She continued to stress that this is supposed to be only for things like the high adventure trips.As for the high adventure trips, she says that the weight requirement there has been in place since the 1990’s. Doesn’t make it right, though. while I have heard that at Philmont ,they have had issues because of the altitude, I still fail to see why Sea Base has to follow the same thing just because. It would also seem to me, they should have some sort of physical test prior to the treks there instead. Also, as my cousin said, if this trip(Philmont) is SO strenuous that there are so many problems, is this something our kids should be doing anyway, since they are not having actual training -like olympic athletes or something?
After the news brief aired(you can still see it at http://www.wsmv.com/news/19366569/detail.html ) Abc news called and CBS news called yesterday. Today another local station wants us on the show. Since now the local council is saying we are not interpreting this right,can you give me any more info on what you all are being told on this and when “part B” has to be used?

She just called back and said that national stated it is only to be used for local council events and that none of ours fall under it because of the 72hrs bit. I again asked what about the “or when….” part and who was to determine when it was to be used. She said the doctor would decide when it had to be used.This makes absolutely no sense to me- I questioned how he would know what the activity entailed. She said that individuals know what their limitations are and if they went with these restrictions ,they would not be covered under BSA insurance(now we are getting somewhere). I then asked if we could refuse to fill out that portion and just not be covered. She just replied, well you wouldn’t be covered. So, if we’re not covered anyway, why bother filling out the form?
Our pack often goes to East Tn., on a white water rafting trip on the Ocoee. I asked her about that trip-it may not be over the 72hr,but was definitely 30 min away from emergency evacuation. She said this probably should have this part filled out, but said it would be up to the doctor to decide if he was fit. I then read her the part that specifies the ht/wt chart must be followed if this part B was filled out, so he would not be able to go just because of his wt.She then asked,surprised “his doctor agreed he was physically fit to go?” I said yes- and he certified him to go to Sea Base,but cannot go because of the wt. She then stated again that they decide that, not local. Basically, we went around and around on this issue, and I am only confused now as to when it is to be used, and who decides.
Please send me what your local councils are saying.

——————————————————————————–

Michael J. Halter Says:

7 May 2009 at 11:24 pm.

Okay, let me see if I have this straight: I do not now, nor for most of my adult life have I ever, been able to meet BMI standards. As a member of the Army National Guard, and as of my last annual health screening by that organization in JAN 09, I meet all US Army health and medical requirements (including body fat content) and could deploy tomorrow, worldwide, to any theatre of operations, any combat zone. Yet, this is not going to be good enough for the BSA? I was ecstatic when my son decided to join Boys Scouts, and the experiences we have had together have brought us closer together than we ever were before. i did not know that the BSA represented the fat police. I see this as a major mistake, and one that could have far reaching, negative effects on the entire organization. I know it will cause a re-evaluation of the organization in my home. As for this idea that a large person who gets injured or ill would be difficult to rescue – no kidding! In the right situation, so is Twiggy! However, as an Army combat medic and NREMT-B i can tell you – iut can be done. To tell volunteers, people who give freely of their time and resources simply for love of the Scouts and the program, that they are not welcome because they do not mee some arbitrary scale which fails to take into account overall fitness, is an insult to the dedication of these volunteers. This needs to be reconsidered. Thank you.

gregg (eagle scout) Says:

9 May 2009 at 7:28 pm.

So I don’t meet the requirements and probably haven’t since I was 12. I did Philmont with my Dad (5′6″ 260lbs). Neither of us had a problem. Now I can’t go 30 miles from an ER with my wolf cub son since that is high adventure! I can swim 5k races (can’t run do to a screwed up foot surgery). BSA used to get 2k a year from me. No more. Smokers are allowed. I have watched folks die of heart attacks in hospitals (not in for that).

Also, CDC website on BMI:

According to the BMI weight status categories, anyone with a BMI over 25 would be classified as overweight and anyone with a BMI over 30 would be classified as obese.

It is important to remember, however, that BMI is not a direct measure of body fatness and that BMI is calculated from an individual’s weight which includes both muscle and fat. As a result, some individuals may have a high BMI but not have a high percentage of body fat. For example, highly trained athletes may have a high BMI because of increased muscularity rather than increased body fatness. Although some people with a BMI in the overweight range (from 25.0 to 29.9) may not have excess body fatness, most people with a BMI in the obese range (equal to or greater than 30) will have increased levels of body fatness.

It is also important to remember that weight is only one factor related to risk for disease. If you have questions or concerns about the appropriateness of your weight, you should discuss them with your healthcare provider.

Mom of a Life Scout, working on his Eagle Says:

15 May 2009 at 10:09 pm.

Boy Scouts are once again missing the boat in their attempt to cover their collective behinds. My son is fit to play the front line of his high school football team but can’t go to summer camp? Funny, his doctor states he is perfectly healthy for stenuous activity.

People wonder why some suffer from anorexia. It is policies like this that promote eating disorders..

Health is important but cookie cutter body shapes and sizes are not. Let the health PROFESSIONALS determine a child’s fitness level. Not some rigid policy.

Theresa Leader Says:

25 May 2009 at 11:52 am.

This saddens me greatly. Once again we are allowing a scale to dictate the ability to participate. I would not be able to be a leader according to the scales. I am a Very fit person. And very muscle bound. I work out 4 times per week. I ride my bike to and from work everyday though out the summer, I go mountain climbing in CO every year without incident. I have been canoeing in the Boundry waters and in Voyagers national park. I have hiked with the boys in Philmount. I think it should be the responsibility of a doctor to determine if you are fit enough to participate rather than a sale to determine your ability.

admin Says:

26 May 2009 at 5:11 pm.

Looks like it applies to anyone 5 feet and over who needs a medical form.

Amy Hedtke Says:

30 May 2009 at 8:09 am.

I did want to add one more thing tho:
When Scouting parents are suing the Scouts when their kids die cuz the parents didn’t disclose medical issues [Philmont -asthma -not even a height/weight issue], don’t wonder why the lawyers start getting involved. If we don’t get some tort reform in here soon, the Scouts won’t be able to AFFORD to offer these programs.

Jack Says:

9 June 2009 at 4:09 pm.

If you got overweight people they can’t do High adventure or be longer than 30 minutes from treatment.

Individuals desiring to participate in any high-adventure activity or events in which emergency evacuation would take longer than 30 minutes by ground transportation will not be permitted to do so if they exceed the weight limit as documented at the bottom of this page. Enforcing the height/weight limit is strongly encouraged for all other events, but it is not mandatory.
(For healthy height/weight guidelines, visit http://www.cdc.gov.)

settummanque Says:

18 June 2009 at 10:05 am.

Shawn wrote in response to what I stated earlier:

“For Mike Walton (Settummanque, the blackeagle). Please revise your statement. I live and work in DC with the uniformed services. I won’t out right call you a liar (although I know several up here that would) but you can’t sling a dead cat without hitting an overweight army officer (although the army is not exclusive to this issue).”

I am stationed in Stuttgart, the headquarters of the US European Command. I can tell you from PERSONAL OBSERVATION AND EXPERIENCE, Shawn, that one, there’s overweight people here (just like those “hiding out” in DC and other locations) and two, there’s things being done to them when they are finally revealed as such.

I don’t know about DC — but I DO know about Stuttgart, Atlanta, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and several places in Iraq and Kuwait. If you’re overweight — you’re placed on the weight control program. You’re not “drummed out of the Army” and that’s the SAME attitude that the BSA is taking. Both are using prudent risk-management procedures to “limit their exposure” to potential injuries and deaths which they have to pay for. In the Army’s case, Shawn, the Army limits where those people are stationed (which is why they are all sitting around there in DC and are “non-deployable”. You’re talking with someone who at one time was ONE of those “non-deployables”, so shush! *weak smile*

In the BSA’s case, they are limiting those who can take Scouts and Venturers on longer-term encampments and participation in national or world Scouting events.

In BOTH cases, the limitation can be REMOVED by simply losing enough weight to come within the standards for your height and age. I had to do that in order to come over here to work in Stuttgart — when I was given the opportunity to take this assignment, I was 218; when I arrived and weighed-in, I weighed 207 and today I weigh 204.

You also wrote:

“Maybe things have changed since you where in, but I have been living up here for over 30 years and there has never been a shortage of overweight career military. As a matter of fact in reality the only time people where truly kicked out for the issue was during the cut backs, of which any reason would have been as good as any other reason. A Scout is also Truthful not just “politically correct”. ”

If you read back to what I stated earlier Shawn, I didn’t mention *anything* about being “kicked out” for being overweight. Here’s what I stated (pasted from my earlier posting:)
/////////
In the military, if one doesn’t meet the standard, then the individual is “taped” and measurements at different points are calculated along with the person’s age, height and weight to determine a body mass index. Those of us 50 and above must have less than 26% body fat in order to have “favorable actions” (promotions, awards, reassignments) approved. If not, you’re placed on a weight-control program, your weight loss is measured each month until you do come within ’standard’. I was on the Army’s weight-control program twice and each time, I was able to come off the program within 90 days and again meet Army height-weight standards.
//////////
I’ve been in the Army for 30 years myself come November and I’ve had to struggle to keep my weight down to meet the Army’s demanding standards since I became a Major. As a matter of fact, it’s what held down my promotion to Major (I’m two years behind my peers as a result of that). If you go to my website, you’ll see that I’m NO “fitness guru” and I do enjoy having a great steak and baked potato!

I’ve also learned that if I want to go to all of these cool places around the world — and I’ve been to quite a large number of them in my career — I need to keep my weight down and do a bit of exercise on a regular basis. Now, it just travels over to what I do in Scouting. A Scout is also cheerful and clean.

Settummanque!

settummanque Says:

18 June 2009 at 10:30 am.

This is kinda going off of the topic, but bears to be answered:

“Disgruntled Scouter” wrote in part and asked:

“Another big one for me is the insanity of putting a picture release in the medical form that
we are supposed to again keep confidential. Is this assuming everybody is going to say
yes? I guess as if people checked no, who could know?”

What’s SUPPOSED to happen is when you show up, a spreadsheet is filled out basically saying “yes,” you meet the standards, “NO” you don’t have any allergies, “NO”, you don’t want your image to be shared with the BSA.

Once that screening occurs, then those taking photos know that you don’t want your image to be included in any BSA publications or newsletters or brochures or whatever. Yeah, it’s standard and the expectation is that the BSA would be allowed to use your image anyway they can to positively promote the programs.

There are SOME folks, however, who DO NOT WANT (or cannot – witness protection, spousal protection, agents of our federal government, etc.) to have the BSA to highlight their attendance at Philmont, the National or a World Jamboree, or a foriegn exchange program or encampment.

“What liability is there is somebody publishes a picture of a person who checks NO? My Council had no good guidance on this.”

Yes they do. Your Scout Executive has a whole binder full of guidance about media and public relations — but I betcha he’s using it as a door stop or as part of a wall of binders that he “collects”!! One of your Council’s professionals is also “tagged” as the “Council Staff Member responsible for Public Relations” and he or she also has a copy of that SAME BINDER that the SE has….but again, they are probably using it as a prop in their office.

There’s also guidance in the Jamboree Staff Manual and the Philmont Staff Manual too…

Settummanque!

Michael Says:

13 July 2009 at 1:31 pm.

The form directs you to the CDC web page for clarification, see the bolded red comments. I was a college and professional athlete and I have never fit within the “recommended weight” even when I had 3% body fat… But muscular athlete Scout Leaders take heart and read below (see: http://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/assessing/bmi/adult_bmi/):

“If an athlete or other person with a lot of muscle has a BMI over 25, is that person still considered to be overweight?

According to the BMI weight status categories, anyone with a BMI over 25 would be classified as overweight and anyone with a BMI over 30 would be classified as obese.

It is important to remember, however, that BMI is not a direct measure of body fatness and that BMI is calculated from an individual’s weight which includes both muscle and fat. As a result, some individuals may have a high BMI but not have a high percentage of body fat. For example, highly trained athletes may have a high BMI because of increased muscularity rather than increased body fatness. Although some people with a BMI in the overweight range (from 25.0 to 29.9) may not have excess body fatness, most people with a BMI in the obese range (equal to or greater than 30) will have increased levels of body fatness.

It is also important to remember that weight is only one factor related to risk for disease. If you have questions or concerns about the appropriateness of your weight, you should discuss them with your healthcare provider. ”

So, research this link, take this quote in with the form and talk it over with your healthcare provider – if you’re the muscular athlete they’re talking about, the healthcare provider will hopefully write an exception…

Mark Says:

22 July 2009 at 3:20 pm.

I am 52 and 60lbs over weight (according to the chart). I run 4-6 miles on a treadmill 4-5 times a week plus some circuit training with free weights. I have had a stress test and have regular check ups and monitoring. However since this form takes the discretion of risk, fitness and abilty away from the physician my doctor has no option but to mark me as restricted. I backpack and hike regularly but now apparently BSA doesn’t want my services (I have been an ASM for 5 years). As soon as I am rejected from an outing, I am done with scouts. I’ll put my time into a local mountaineering club or something.

This is more about bureaucracy than risk assesment. Some administrator took the easy way out, looked up some out dated chart on the internet and made it a requirement. I give this a year before this is repealed. If I am wrong the troop I am associated with will not have many, if any summer trips to offer.

Bulldog Says:

27 August 2009 at 12:45 pm.

PARENTS, HIDE YOUR ‘SCOUTING’ MAGAZINE FROM YOUR CHILDREN!!

Did you see the article titled “FAT CHANCE” in the Sept.09 SCOUTING magazine?….. this is TOTAL ARROGANCE on the part of this editor to allow a judgmental, demeaning, and hurtful title of an Boy Scout related article. Read the article and be amazed at the total disregard for the Scout Law of being courteous and kind!

Lets remember a few points:

– This is the Boy Scouts, not the parent scouts or the leader scouts… as adults, we have certain unalienable American rights to make our own decision for our health and well being.

– Parents may volunteer there time and effort in the hopes of bettering their own children… maybe the parents never grew up with Scouting.

– Maybe the parent/volunteer has always struggled with a weight issue….. Scouting National would like adults to suddenly overcome and accomplish what they could not do for a lifetime, and is judging them as unfit to lead their own children.

– In this time of accepting people for the color, creed, religious background, ect., does it make sense to discriminate on a basis of weight.

– Remember, Scouting only survives if the adults will volunteer their time and effort. If you tell them them CAN’T do something, do you THINK they will give their time?

Do I think that the article is off-base with an issue that is haunting the total American public… NO. BUT, to make ultimatums of a volunteer base of Americans, that have their children in mind, is no way to run any organization.

IF National is worried about the potential for lawsuits and such, have all people sign a release of liability for events that may cause harm to any person, heavy or not.

Thanks,
Bulldog

Dave in NH Says:

17 September 2009 at 5:01 pm.

who really wins in the situation?Of course not the local troops,thanks to national council.It means that trips or outings may not happend due to this new enforcemnt.It could also mean that losing some great troops as well….Somebody may wanna rethink this out again

Mother of 2 Eagle scouts Says:

14 October 2009 at 3:24 pm.

I have been involved in scouting for over 10 years. I have watched overweight scout leaders hold boys back on hikes because they were too overweight. I just checked the weight requirement for my height and it tells me that I can be 201 pounds. At my height this is classified as obese. These weight requirements are so liberal. Leaders should wake up and come to terms with their weight problems. They are putting themselves at risk for heart attacks and strokes on boyscout outings and in their daily lives.

mom in va Says:

4 November 2009 at 12:37 pm.

I have been in scouting since 1997, I have run day camps and been on trips with the boy scout and cub scouts. I am now running a venture crew. These kids really don’t care if I am over weight just that I am there with them when we go places. If this weight control rule is kept I will not be able to attend their summer outing this summer and so the girls will not be able to go. No female leadership means no trip for the girls. My weight has never caused a problem on our trips before and I don’t think it will in the future. I feel as if I am being descriminated against. BSA, rethink this policy.

Andy Says:

13 December 2009 at 8:07 pm.

Dang! I’m too light

Gary Says:

23 December 2009 at 10:56 am.

at 5′4″ I weigh 120 lps I cannot even think how I would look at 159lps let alone 189 those complaining see your doctor your a time bomb waiting to go off.

Leigh Biesel Says:

4 January 2010 at 11:39 am.

I think that the guidelines are completely acceptable. The weight ranges are very forgiving. I think these guidelines are the wake up call that many parents need to realize that allowing your child to be extremely heavy can have a serious impact on their health. I think that not allowing people, children and leaders both, to go on these physically demanding trips is an obvious decision.
Also, to fellow leaders, we are suppossed to be examples to these boys. Allowing ourselves to become so out of shape and overweight as to not fit into these guidelines should be an eye openers for us as well. We owe it to these boys to live out the values that we are teaching them. That includes taking good care of ourselves and taking steps to be healthy.

Tim Miller Says:

31 January 2010 at 9:31 am.

I agree with Mr. G. I find it hard to believe that someone who falls outside this chart could honestly look at themselves in the mirror and say, “I am in GREAT SHAPE.” I am 46 years old, 6′3″, and about 200 lbs. I only do pushups, situps, and walk to stay in shape – Not a great athlete. I cannot believe that I could go to the limit of the chart – 260 LBS!!!! – and still feel great about my body shape. Scouts are not just about making to the end – right?? They are about leading others to the end. Set the example. The chart is an easy standard to meet!!

Elliot Says:

29 April 2010 at 3:33 pm.

I am 17, and yes i am overweight im about 5′-11″ and i weigh over 300lbs. The W/H chart should be a guide line not a requirement, i admit im not in great shape, but that dose not mean i cant do everything that a fit person can do. i have been going on camp outs and hikes for the majority om my life, the only difference between me and a fit person is ill finish the hike in maybe 10 min more than everyone else. I should be aloud to do what i want, my wight is not putting any one else in danger, so why cant i go?

Jeff Says:

3 May 2010 at 6:21 pm.

I just lost 20 pounds to make sure I was under the max. I hope to lose another 20! Of course, there were many good reasons for a 50 year-old Scoutmaster to do this, but the thought of missing out on adventure was a powerful encouragement. I used a meal program, which is a big help for someone who has a place to be every hour of the day.

Teresa Says:

25 July 2010 at 7:42 am.

My only question is what about the boys who fall below the height weight chart altogether….my son at 12 in only 52.5 inches and 60 pounds. How does the chart extend below the 60 inch guide? And what about the scouts that are too skinny?