19 September 2009
Can My Daughter Be an Eagle Scout?
Posted by admin under: program .
The Scout Executive of the Western Los Angeles Country Council told us at this month’s Roundtable meeting that there was an idea over at the BSA’s Innovation Engine discussing the possibility of offering female Venturing Scouts the rank of Eagle Scout. The topic has an overwhelming negative vote on it which would ordinarily have shut off the consideration for me. After all, Venturers have their own advancement awards and my daughter is also a Girl Scout with her Gold Award yet to be achieved. However, our executive said something interesting in the breakdown of the votes for this topic: something I can’t verify so I have to take it at face value. Volunteers are in favor of the idea 70% to 30% while paid employees are against the idea 70% to 30%. Be that as it may, the idea has been taken into consideration by a committee which means it has passed the first test of any of the topics proposed: most of them die before they even get to committee. So does this suggest that the volunteers really have the muscle in our beloved Scouting organization? Let’s wait and see.
This idea is to allow young ladies to become Eagle Scouts in the Venturing Program. Starting at age 14, they would have to do all of the requirements that the boys have to do and be done before the age of 18. In theory, Eagle can be attained in 2.5 years, so 4 years is plenty of time to fulfill the requirements. If adopted, this idea would allow for more membership and more supply sales and fill a void that is not presently offered by any other girl’s group. It would require no program modifications, only a new Venturing Book for girls with the requirements in it taken from the Boy Scout Handbook. Venturing is already co-ed so it is not really a departure from what is happening today.
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58 Comments so far...
Kitsap Scouter Says:
5 October 2009 at 8:01 pm.
I think this would be a death-knell to Scouting as we know it. BSA is *not* the only Scouting for Boys organization around. Allowing girls to become Eagle Scouts is the first step toward co-educational Scouting — something that reduces the BSA to another Boys & Girls Club.
Victor Says:
8 October 2009 at 12:57 pm.
Girls earning Gold in Girl Scouting provides the same goals that Boys earning Eagle in Boy Scouting. The main difference that I see is that the Girl Scouts do not emphasize the rank more (at least in my daughters council). Since Venturing already offers its own set of requirements which are not easy to attain…I vote NO for Girls to attain the rank of Eagle…but YES for boys and girls to attain the silver badge in Venturing. If the current scouting program blurs – at what point does the program merge and when does the program die and just become a club
Paul (Eagle Scout) Says:
9 December 2009 at 9:29 pm.
As an Eagle Scout, I believe that Girls should be allowed to earn Eagle. As I write this I am actually currently writing my English Term Paper on this topic and I can tell you that given the society we live in, the Gold award will never be as widely recognized as the Eagle award and it was Baden Powells original intention that Scouting be Coed, but he was forced to change it due to outside pressure. Venturing is a part of Boy Scouts, Girls can join Venturing, so therefore they should be allowed to earn Eagle. But they should be given until 21 instead of 18 because they deserve an equal chance.
David Says:
12 December 2009 at 12:23 pm.
I don’t think girls should be included just as male venturers and sea scouts are not included. Co ed is a good thing but somethings just need to be seperated.
REB Says:
15 December 2009 at 3:41 pm.
As an Eagle Scout and the father of an Eagle Scout I believe that girls in Venture Crews should not be offered the opportunity to earn the Eagle Honor. Venturing has unique advancement and awards that do not include merit badges. The Order of the Arrow requires candidates to have attained the rank of First Class which precludes female youth from candidacy. Let the Eagle be an honor reserved for Boy Scouts as well.
Tosa Joe Says:
22 December 2009 at 3:45 pm.
Hmmm. BSA structured Venture Crews to allow male members to earn their Eagle award, even when they are no longer members of a Boy Scout Troop. I imagine this was done as an incentive to increase the number of Boy Scouts joining Venture Crews. Another incentive to boys in general, is that Venture Crews are coed! Yet, Venture Crews offer a special award, just for boys – Eagle. Hmmm. I say, phase out Eagle award in Venturing and concentrate on providing an identical experience and opportunity to all members of Venture Crews, male and female. Yes, that’s right, restrict the Eagle award to Boy Scout Troops and this “problem” goes away, as does the constant harping from Scoutmasters about how Venturing “steals” boys from their troops.
FoxCC Says:
23 February 2010 at 12:31 pm.
Absolutely NOT.
Why is it that after one hundred years a strong success, some people feel the need to introduce yet another coed concept to the Boy Scouts of America?
settummanque, the blackeagle (Mike Walton) Says:
9 March 2010 at 12:19 pm.
Tosa Joe wrote earlier:
“Hmmm. BSA structured Venture Crews to allow male members to earn their Eagle award, even when they are no longer members of a Boy Scout Troop. I imagine this was done as an incentive to increase the number of Boy Scouts joining Venture Crews.”
Terminology. “VENTURING” is the older program of the Boy Scouts of America. It replaced EXPLORING, which a version existed since 1931. Like it’s forerunner, Venturing is co-ed and young men and women participate in an advancement program.
“VENTURE” is a Boy Scout PROGRAM OPTION, and just about ready to go out the door (the NEB will vote on removing the program option this spring). Because Venture Scouts ARE Boy Scouts (just older ones), they are entitled to everything that their younger Boy Scouts are, to include Boy Scout advancement.
Okay, now that we’ve straightened out the differences between the two programs, I’m sure that Joe was talking about VENTURING. Joe, Venturing and before that, Exploring, has ALWAYS ALLOWED young MEN to earn Eagle, as long as they had earned First Class before they became Venturers and as long as they are registered members of a Venturing Crew or Sea Scout Ship.
I am one of those former Explorers who earned Eagle as part of an Explorer Post back in 1975. It had NOTHING TO DO with bringing in more males; on the contrary, Exploring then was 72 percent female membership and Venturing today is 57 or 64 percent female (depending on whose numbers you use; I like to use the BSA’s numbers because, well, it *sounds more official* than the Venturing Officers Association’s numbers.)
“Another incentive to boys in general, is that Venture Crews are coed! Yet, Venture Crews offer a special award, just for boys – Eagle.”
The “specialness” only applies to a very few number of males in Venturing Crews or Sea Scout Ships. Most of the males in Venturing are NOT former Boy Scouts; therefore, they cannot earn Eagle unless they are also members of a Boy Scout Troop or Varsity Scout Team and earn First Class rank. Not a lot of young men will go that distance and will concentrate on earning the Silver Award.
“Hmmm. I say, phase out Eagle award in Venturing and concentrate on providing an identical experience and opportunity to all members of Venture Crews, male and female. Yes, that’s right, restrict the Eagle award to Boy Scout Troops and this “problem” goes away, as does the constant harping from Scoutmasters about how Venturing “steals” boys from their troops.”
The “harping”, Joe, won’t happen if those Scoutmasters stop trying to make their Troops into “Venturing Crews” and concentrate on providing a quality Boy Scout program! I’ve been to a LOT of Councils whereby I hear that same refrain: “Venturing is taking our boys away from us and with that, our senior leadership…blah blah blah…”
If the Troop started out with a quality program, one which has appeal for the older youth as well as the younger youth, and one in which REAL LEADERSHIP OCCURS, no matter how many females are over in the Venturing Crew, those guys are going to stay RIGHT THERE with the Troop until they turn 18 or have earned Eagle and a couple of Palms and are ready for what Venturing provides.
It is, however, those Troops which have lackluster programs; which has “scoutmastership leadership” instead of “youth-led leadership”; and which has NO REAL PROGRAM except “show up and we might do something cool…” — THOSE are the Troops that are going to lose (and have already lost!) their “older, senior boys” to Venturing and Sea Scouting.
Finally Joe, this isn’t a pick on you….a LOT of Scouters get the Venture program option and the Venturing Division of the BSA mixed up. I had wished that the BSA killed off Venture Patrols as an option back in 1996 when they realized that it wasn’t gonna work — it didn’t work when we called them the “Leadership Corps” in the 70s and it didn’t work when we offered them a letter to wear and offered them some “cool outdoor experiences” unlike Varsity Scouting. It should have died then…but there are SOME LOCATIONS and SOME national chartered partners (the Southern Baptists use Venture Patrols a LOT) that like the program. But it’s gonna die…die…die…*wicked smile*
Settummanque!
LTC Mike Walton (settummanque, the blackeagle)
http://www.settummanque.com
Stuttgart, Germany
Alypuppy Says:
17 March 2010 at 10:01 am.
As an eagle scout and a transexual, I feel that all people should be able to obtain the highly regarded award of Eagle Scout. I am currently ashamed of my achievement as I am one of the few women to have this honour and am strongly against all sexually exclusive organizations. Also, selfishly, I want to be proud of my Eagle Award, but I cannot list it as it will blow my cover and I might as well tell everyone I was born male.
Girl Scouts, while providing important skills to women, seems to have always had the connotation of baking brownies and selling cookies and is rarely taken seriously by many across the nation, especially several BSA Scouts I have met. I think both are important, but what of the women that want to have the hard outdoor learning experience provided by the BSA at an age younger than Venture Scouts?
However, as a transexual and always fighting for gender parity, this debate goes deeper that people should not be denied purely because of their birth sex, but should be allowed to obtain all that their gender identity needs. If a girl wants to do traditionally boy things, why should she be denied purely because of dual X Chromosomes? All people should have equal opportunity regardless of their sex.
Blackstone Says:
22 March 2010 at 3:17 pm.
Opening up the all the ranks of the Boy Scouts of America, including that of Eagle, to female Venture Scouts is just. Scouting in other countries treat their female members with equality, so should we of these united States of America. Girls are not secondary class children!
A note to Alypuppy – once an eagle scout, always an eagle scout – and after you have sexual reassignment surgery, you are one of the few, the proud, female Eagle Scouts… be prepared!
Christine Says:
24 April 2010 at 1:01 pm.
Aly,
I also am transexual and an Eagle Scout.
I loved my time in scouts but it was a very confused time for me.
TD Says:
29 April 2010 at 10:56 am.
OK…Yes I’m an Eagle scout and yes I’m a father of two daughters (one of which is in GSA). I can’t wait for them to get to Venturing age. And as such I do support the Eagle award for girls.
But this is really a larger issue. A lot of older scouters do NOT like a co-ed Venture program. Most coutries around the world have an age appropriate co-ed program. THAT’S RIGHT I SAID AGE APPROPIATE! Which means tigers, cubs and scouts need to be around boys and not with girls. As they get older they need to learn to respect one another and social norms.
I personally believe that all Scouters should take the Venture Leaders training to find out what it’s all about. This really opened my eyes to what Scouting in general can and will become.
Sandy Says:
3 May 2010 at 12:48 pm.
“OK…Yes I’m an Eagle scout and yes I’m a father of two daughters (one of which is in GSA). ”
TD, the organization is THE GIRL SCOUTS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and the abbreviation is GSUSA, GSA is the Government Services Administration.
I am a First Class Girl Scout and a sister to an Eagle Scout. I am also the parent to one each boy and girl. I want SINGLE SEX programs and activities for BOTH of them, There are times and places for it. As well as I endorse co-ed older teen and young adult programs with Adult supervision. I was active in an Explorer Post (sponsored by a NASA research facility) and in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet program as a teen, IN ADDITION to being an active Senior Girl Scout.
As to being an “Eagle Scout,” I’m a bit mixed. Currently the new “Journeys’ porgramming” that GSUSA has rolled out is very much “too light” on the skills building. No service, except for “pet projects” of the year for the corporation, and NO challenges, and NO responsibilities.
The Girl Scout Gold Award requirements as written back in the mid 1990s addressed many of the “too light and fluff” stuff. Much of it was removed and more objective pre-requisites added, and more objective bench marks to meet. The stuff now… nope, no skills other than writing and navel gazing.
But should “Eagle” be opened up? This woman, (life long Girl Scout), does not think so.
You see I am also a mother to a son. I do want things to him that he ‘does not have to share with his sister’ just as i want things for my daughter that she ‘does not have to share with her brother.’
There are things about and associated with being an Eagle Scout, that are a reflection on ‘manly virtures and strengths’ it should remain that way.
Venture Crews are IN ADDITION to the regular Boy Scout Troop program and experience, let’s leave it (the rank of Eagle Scout) to the BSA, and the boys in troops!
JBHK Says:
4 May 2010 at 10:28 am.
I have both a Gold and an Eagle in my house, and a younger girl still in scouting. As much as I deplore the way the Girl Scouts have watered down their gold award requirements since my older daughter worked on her gold, I’d have to say no. The Eagle should remain an award for boys, and I’m not even keen on it being a Venturing goal. I do think it’s great that girls can be in Venturing, but a lot of Boy Scout leaders in my area are VERY anti Girl Scout. Not all, but a lot. Girls in Venturing is hard enough for them to handle. They’re not ready to be pushed that far, and I don’t think think they should have to be. GSUSA should get back to a more outdoors based program, focusing on practical skills instead of trying to sell off all their camps and make their programs a bunch of journal writing navel gazing crap, and both organizations should encourage their members to work together, on service projects especially. That would be more beneficial than girls earning Eagle, and would probably be something that Juliette and the Colonel would be proud of.
wendy Says:
4 May 2010 at 8:43 pm.
I am a girl scout leader and our girls have just earned their Girl Scout Gold Award ,they worked hard for 3 years and did over 300 hours of community service.Their project was a community vegatable garden which fed over 700 families fresh organic produce it was back breaking work and not naval gazing crap!the garden will now continue year after year.there is one thing that bugs me though,why do girls not get the same recognition that the the boys get for an equavalant award,why do they get doorsshut in their faces?this is sexisum ,help us change this!
Sarah Says:
13 May 2010 at 5:46 pm.
I’m sorry, but speaking as a Girl Scout Leader with friends who have Eagle Scouts in their families, where do you get the idea that the Gold Award is watered down? Just the prerequisites alone take over a year to earn. Then, the girl has to find a project that is a good fit for her with an organization that will work with her and her idea, and it must involve not only leadership, but peer volunteers AND be something that will be sustainable over the years. Many times the organization has other ideas and the project must be scrapped and the girl must start over. Once the girl finally finds a good fit, then comes the multiple pages of paperwork just to submit it to council. IF it’s approved, and it usually is NOT on the first or second try, then the 65 hour project can begin. EVERY single step must be logged, minute by minute; every detail, where and when. When the project is completed, thank you notes must be written to EVERYONE involved, a notebook with details of the whole event must be completed, a timelog must be completed, and a detailed report of about 6 pages must be written up. The report and timelog must be turned in. These, too, are often rejected the first and, often, second time and must be redone. Now, which one is easier to you?
Boy Scouts of America Adds United Kingdom Award to its Program | BoyandGirlScouts.com - News, Opinion, Advice Says:
24 May 2010 at 3:38 pm.
[...] too, she can earn all 9 of them. Boys can only earn 6. I hope that make her feel better about not being able to get the Eagle rank. Share and [...]
Steve Says:
2 August 2010 at 11:17 am.
Let boys be boys, and girls be girls. I think Venturing is quite far enough (too far, IMO) if the BSA feels the need to have female youth members. Our society is already pushing the acceptance of Gender-Neutrality when girls want to do what boys are doing. When the shoe is on the other foot, it’s sexist.
Max Says:
7 August 2010 at 10:10 pm.
I am an eagle scout and have been in boy scouts for six years. I do not think that girls should be allowed to get Eagle Scout because they can earn the gold award wich is the equivalent to the Eagle aeard any way. I think the ventuering program is a good thing, but i do think that there needs to be some difference between boy scouting and ventuering. An Eagle award is for boys and gold awards are for girls, same honor, just a distinction between boy scouting and girl scouting.
Skater Says:
10 August 2010 at 12:07 am.
The Eagle Scout Award and the Gold Award are different because the programs are different. In a boy scout troop, the troop has scouts from 10 1/2 to 17 and usually are larger in size. There are unfortunately more opportunities for a boy to develop his leadership skills within the program. They camp and do more outdoor skills. It is not the youth’s fault that they are different, but they are, and the scouts need to realize this. If the Gold Award had the same exact requirements in Girl Scouts, then I would have no problem calling it Eagle Scout.
Maddie Davis Says:
25 August 2010 at 10:11 am.
I met a scout from canada there is no boy scouts just scouts from early ages on up co-ed. I think this is the way to go, since Baden Powell wanted it co0ed from start.
Toni Says:
6 September 2010 at 11:36 pm.
I am a girl scout leader , Boyscout committee member and also a Venturing Crew Advisor the Gold award is for the girls the Eagle for boys and that is how it should be.
LMB Says:
10 September 2010 at 7:29 pm.
I agree with JBHK that Eagle Scout Award should be only earned as a Boy Scout. I am a proud mother of an Eagle Scout and a Life Scout who finished an awesome huge Eagle project. I am currently my daughters Junior/ Cadette Leader and would like her to participate in the Venturing program when she is 14 years old. As far as I see there isn’t many girls who continue in Girl Scouts after Juniors, whatever the reason. I think it may help if they have an opportunity to participate in the Venturing program and benefit them learning new skills. I believe that the only way to earn the Eagle award is to be active in their Boy Scout troop, even if they participate in the Venturing program. That is one of the Eagle requirements (6 months active in their Boy Scout Troop as a Life Scout). I do not believe a Venture Scout should be allowed to earn the Eagle Scout Award without being active in their Boy Scout Troop. I was also the Scoutmaster for two years, and earned the Brotherhood Order of the Arrow. I think that it would be great to recognize a Girl Scout in the Venturing program who show good examples and leadership the opportunity to be elected to the Order of the Arrow, since they desire to be apart of the BSA Venturing program.
NEVER Says:
18 September 2010 at 11:41 pm.
It doesn’t matter that society doesn’t value the “gold award” as widely as “Eagle Rank.” If you were to let girls earn “Eagle Rank,” you should allow boys the equal opportunity of earning the “gold award.” Then, it would be fair for them to bring up such an absurd suggestion like that. Imagine: Girls being Eagle Scouts. Heck no!
LauraB Says:
23 September 2010 at 1:20 pm.
I’m a Gold Award winner (recipient, whatever you want to call it. I’m not starting that argument). I don’t think girls should necessarily be able to earn Eagle, but I DO think GSUSA needs to look at what they’ve done to the Gold. It’s just not at the same level, especially after this second round of changes. Requirements were virtually the same since the introduction of the award in 1980 to the time I earned it in 2005. Since then the requirements have gone under complete overhaul TWICE. Do you know how many Interest Projects (merit badges) a girl is required to earn today? Zero, that’s how many. They have to earn two “Journey” programs, which are a whole ‘nother argument. If they earned Silver, they can only do one Journey before starting Gold.
I know leaders who used to compare Gold and Eagle, who no longer will, because GSUSA had decreased the award to nothing. Those in GS need to stop wishing their girls could earn Eagle, and just fix the GS program. It needs it, but jumping ship isn’t the way to get it to work.
Tim Says:
12 October 2010 at 2:46 am.
Ive been in scouting a long time, ive seen what happens when you bring in changes to fast. I saw troops closed down because they had a female scoutmaster, I had new troops stand up because of the same thing. I discovered that Moms wanted there boys to be around men, i had single mothers in out troop come to me and complain about ASM that were female. Eagle is Eagle it will take away from what our young scouts want. Maybe there should be another type of award made for Ventures. I just feel that Eagle should remain Boy Scout Eagle.
Janet Says:
17 October 2010 at 7:33 pm.
I feel girls should be allowed to be an Eagle scout. The troop for girls in our area is to much like troop Beverly Hills. Cooking over an open fire and camping outside. Is no longer the girl scout way here in Nc. They really have no clue what scouting and being out doors are like. Breaking a nail and make up parties, and selling cookies is pretty much what most troops are like here. I would love to see girl scouts much like boy scouts learning to survive if ever in a situation that they need these skills.
Jason Says:
19 October 2010 at 11:37 am.
I earned my Eagle about 12 years ago and have participated in scouting since 1988. I am still young (30 y.o.) and have noticed a lot of differences in scouting mostly in the last 10 years. For one, the requirements are not the same now. Things are easier for both GS and BSA. If you feel that the GS is not doing enough to teach your girls, then join as a leader, play the politics, and change them yourself. The requirements for Gold may not be that much anymore, but you can build a troop that goes camping, cooks on the fire, hikes, canoes, etc. Heck, build one that rivals your local BSA troop. My troop wouldn’t go to jamboree’s or group camping because it was ‘city’ camping. We learned the no trace camping. Learned to hike, navigate, fish, etc. As I got my Eagle, one mother tried suing the Scout Master for teaching her son to kill and cook fish. Unfortunately I am not joking.
Boy Scouts was started to help teach young boys to be good men. The Scout Law states every part of what helps build the base of a good man. Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obediant, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, Reverant. Today, the problem is that some parents are trying to get too involved, while others are not doing enough. A child IS raised by their community. And I feel that in todays world, the community is more needed than before. There are more single mothers today, and these boys need some kind of male influance that is positive. For the most part, BSA fills this. If your daughters join BSA troops, and we start changing all of the rules to accomidate, what happens to the lessons we are try to teach? Or vise-versa for GS? What parents need to do is simple. Look back at the origional reasons for these organizations, and go back to it.
Maybe for Ventures we need to look at a seperate award that both the boys and girls can earn.
Hilary Says:
21 October 2010 at 2:36 pm.
I am SO sick and tired of people saying ‘Girl Scouts isn’t Boy Scouts – Girl Scouts should be fixed’ and the like. I am an administrative volunteer for both BSA and GSUSA (no, it is not GSA) and I see strengths and weaknesses in both organizations.
IMHO – Girl Scouts is NOT a broken program at all. Yes – there are some bad experiences people have had with it, but they are caused by bad adult leadership coupled with parents that step back instead of step forward to fix a problem. (I know – I’m going to get nailed for this, but its what I see happening 99% of the time.) GSUSA has undergone a lot of changes recently, that overall make for an even better experience for girls and adults, but the overall values of the organization hasn’t changed – its just reinforced the values that GSUSA was founded on. BSA undergoing major changes right now – and for several more years to come. The BSA changes we are seeing, and will be, are to build up the leadership development within the program (for both adults and youth). BSA still has one MAJOR issue it has to deal with in its programming – that you are an adult at 18 in a Pack or a Troop, but not until 21 in Venturing – that makes for some funky gray area issues for everyone involved in more than one unit type. Also remember that BSA might have a stronger brand image than GSUSA – but BSA units are franchises owned by chartering organizations, whereas GSUSA Troops are owned by their local Girl Scout Council. That difference alone creates a huge gap in operating philosophies! BSA and GSUSA are different organizations serving different groups (despite BSA having Venturing).
Regarding Awards/Ranks –
There are some great Eagle Projects being done. There are also some that are of questionable level of truly being Eagle worthy. Considering that Eagle is now earned so young, and can be (I kid you not – this is a real example of a project where the young man had no learning, physical, or developmental reasons that required special consideration) something as simple as planting 6 trees (yes 6 trees, his entire project took 3.5 hours) – that colleges and universities no longer hold it is the same prestige as in the past. One friend I have is a college recruiter – they have flat out told me, if you earn Eagle at 14 or younger their university, and several others, just ignores it on your application as you were too young to get much relevant leadership development from it, and if you did earn Eagle Rank – they want to know what you did (keep the example above in mind), and they decide if it should have any weight on your application.
Now, lets look at the Girl Scout Gold Award: http://www.girlscouts.org/program/gs_central/insignia/highest_awards/gold_award.html
Each girl earning this has to put in at least 80 leadership hours – not service hours, but leadership hours – on the project itself, it must be sustainable (ie – has to continue on without her), has to benefit outside of Girl Scouting, and has to be global in scope. She can’t even begin to work on this until she is a teenager, she has to write up a practically professional level proposal that her Girl Scout Council’s Gold Award Committee must approve before she can start recruiting her volunteers that she will lead in making this project happen, and she has to team up with (or create) an organization that her project is in the same field as. Once the project is done – another practically professional level write up has to occur and be submitted back to the same council level committee as before. They decide if she gets her award. And she only has 1 year to complete the project once she has her written approval from the Girl Scout Council’s Gold Award Committee.
You tell me – which award holds more meaning right now?
Now to the camping issue:
If you want to go camping and do high adventure – you can in both Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts. Boy Scouts has ranks to advance through – Girl Scouts does not. To advance ranks you have to go camping – that is why a Boy Scout Troop goes camping once a month. Girl Scouts go camping when the want to (maybe its to work on a badge, and maybe its just to enjoy camping), its up to the girls to make a plan, get it approved by their leader, and put it into action. Its not an automated, ‘just how its done’, thing that you see in Boy Scouts. And both of these methods are JUST FINE!
Regarding awards –
* (boys only) Boy Scout Troop members (ie Boy Scouts) have the top rank of Eagle
* (girls only) Girl Scouts can earn the top award in GSUSA, the Girl Scout Gold Award
* (co-ed) BSA has several awards in the Venturing program – no ranks in Venturing, so there are several awards that can be earned to match the focus of the Crew and/or Venturer (outdoors/camping, sports, religious, arts, etc.). The top Leadership award a Venturer can earn is BSA’s Venturing Silver Award.
In summary – if you have a Son or a Daughter and want them to have a fun experience in Girl or Boy Scouts that includes leadership development and camping – the rule is to get involved. Empower your child to have the confidence in their developing leadership skills and personal interests so that they can have the experiences and adventures in Girl or Boy Scouts that they want to and you know they will benefit from. Remember that YOU are the example of attitude – if you don’t like the program they are in and step back from it/fuss about it – you are teaching them to do that as well. But if you teach them to take ownership of their experience in the program to make it the best it can be – you are teaching them success now and in their future.
Neither organization is perfect – but they are both good. Its just like life though – you get what you make of it!
kathryn Says:
27 October 2010 at 11:16 pm.
My grandmother was the LAST girl in the state to be awarded an eagle scout pen. Her uniform hangs in the main office. FYI.
so yes they could.
Christina Says:
3 February 2011 at 1:57 pm.
I am currently a Girl Scout leader of Webelos aged girls. I have several that would like to be Eagle Scouts. Of course, we do lots of orienteering, camping, and traditional scout activities in our troop. I stay away from all the “save the planet”, “agent of change” brainwashing that GSUSA puts out. My girls know how to use a compass and build a fire…
I believe that girls should have the opportunity to earn a similar rank and know a GS Gold Award is in no way equivalent to the Eagle Scout rank. It’s basically just the service project part with no skill building involved, no years of work.
Long ago there was the Golden Eaglet award for the girl scout. I believe this should be brought back either in the GSUSA (fat chance) or in a unique organization (more likely). This organization could be affiliated with BSA, but just for girls. Girls could fulfill the same requirements for the Eagle Scout in a parallel, girl only environment. However, the name of the award or rank should be changed to Golden Eagle, so that one may not think of an infant bird.
In defense of the BSA. The Boy Scouts is one of the few boy only organizations left. Boys should be allowed to have their own organization – a place for boys to be boys. Putting the sexes together always distracts the kids and complicates things. Please let the boys have a place to focus only on their work toward their rank instead of having a girl hanging on their arm. Yes, this would happen.
Let girls be girls by having their own organization that can let them achieve the same level as the boys, but in parallel. I think this would be a fine solution.
Christina Says:
3 February 2011 at 2:13 pm.
Another thing… Hillary makes some good points. For the girl scouts, it all depends on the leader. The girls in my troop get a well rounded scouting experience, but therein lies the problem. I really have to dig for programming materials and often use BSA references. I usually come up with them myself.
Hillary may not realize that no skill badges are involved in earning a gold award. An 11th grader can show up, do two journeys (can be completed in two evenings if one tried) and then do the project part. These leadership journeys are full of propaganda about the latest environmentalist craze. This approach has been put in place so that the badges are not “in the way” of the girls having a leadership experience. It’s just too easy to have prestige.
And some of us out here think that the “scout” has been taken out of girl “scouting” and replaced with girl “activism” instead. But experimenting with leadership without having a foundation of basic skills is not a good thing in my opinion. In the girl scouts it’s always me, me, me, I, I, I… What do I feel? How does this make me feel? What do I do now based on my FEELINGS etc. Using logic is not promoted. We do things based on what we feel. Just read the new literature and see for yourself.
Mark Says:
16 February 2011 at 11:37 pm.
I am an Eagle Scout with two daughters. Although I seriously considered starting a venture crew, I ultimately decided against it as i did not want to be the first person to explain to my daughters that they could not achieve a goal due to their gender. I believe that ultimately, BSA will miss an entire generation of exceptional women leaders that could be the key to vitality of the organization. Now one daughter is 16 and has lost her opportunity to be an eagle for her lifetime. Her sister is 14 and will soon loose her window of opportunity. They hopefully will both go on to lead great lives and do great things but will have missed out on the great program that is scouting. I know of no organization in the country that has maintained a policy of gender exclusion that has really thrived. Rotary, Kiwanis, etc. all include women and are relevant. Organizations like the Masonic Lodge that was tremendous 50 years ago has become (pardon any offense) practically irrelevant in today’s business world. I hope that the same fate does not befall the BSA program in the future. Let the venture girls earn Eagle – we will all benefit from it.
Tom Johnson Says:
18 February 2011 at 4:09 pm.
There are tons of high level Venturing Award, just as perstigous as the Eagle Rank, for venturing youth, and both boys/girls can earn them.
In our council we celebrate eqaully the achievement of these Venturing awards, and you should, too.
In fact, in mamny cases, the rarity of earning them is a bit more mystical that the Eagle rank.
And,I believe some of them can be earned right up to the age of 21.
so check them out, and get your girls started.
The Eagle Scout Rank is for Boys, and will remain so and will not be diluted. Keep in mind that the Girl Scouts have their Gold Award, did you not start your girls in Girls Scout earlier on?
Good Luck
Mark Says:
18 February 2011 at 5:19 pm.
In any circles that I have ever traveled in, here and abroad, no other rank or “award” has the distinction and recognition of the Eagle Scout award. In fact, I was speaking to a female judge yesterday and discussed this topic and her reply was “don’t they (venture) have something like gold or silver or something similar for girls?” which essentially makes my point. In my opinion, there is no achievement equal in recognized distinction like the Eagle Scout rank – everyone knows what it is and what it means.
I just have a real problem with the concept that my set-the-world-on-fire daughters earning the Eagle Scout award would be considered a “dilution”-that term underscores the basis of my unltimate conclusion – i will never tell them that they are less or second rate or a “dilution” of anything. Unfortunately, some of the boys that I knew who squeaked by on the requirements, being drug by their parent/scoutmaster at midnight on the eve of their 18th birthday would be much more of a dilution, in my opinion.
My wife and I did get involved in Girls Scouts early on with them, but it was no comparison to the leadership and education offered by the scout program. Believe me, I studied the girl scout program thoroughly and came away with the impression that it was more of a girls wellness type of program primarily geared toward urban youth than the high adventure leadership program of the BSA. Ultimately the girls didn’t enjoy it so we let it go and I tried to fill the gap with family camping.
Not that i agree or disagree with her judicial philosophy, but try telling Sandra Day O’conner that she is a dilution as a US Supreme Court Justice or that Eileen Collins is a dilution to the shuttle program.
As we watch the BSA enrollment numbers decline and more women become leaders in top postions nationwide, do we really think that its a good idea to maintain a boy’s club mentality? How many more venture units and enrollment numbers might occur if girls were given the opportunity to earn thier Eagle Scout? As they already constitute roughly 50% of the total enrollment in venture (so I’m told) would the present and more importantly long-term embrace of the scouting ideals of the trail to Eagle be a bad thing?
When the ranks of your fighter pilots, congressmen, president (potentially), secretary of state, shutlle commander, justices, etc. are filled with top level females, why would scouting want to miss out on the opportunity to have the framed Eagle Award hanging in their offices as it does mine?
All progress occurs because people have the vision to be different. Although my daughters won’t have even the opportunity to be an Eagle Scout, our best and brightest girls deserve at least the opporunity. BSA deserves the opportunity.
Kristi Says:
1 March 2011 at 9:20 pm.
My only problem with girls not being able to get an Eagle Award is that she does not have the opportunity to start 3 ranks above in the military upon enlisting. Now that is sexist without a doubt. Why shouldn’t girls get the chance to go into the military with this distintive award that lets them start at an E-3?
Kristi Says:
1 March 2011 at 9:25 pm.
oh and not to mention the numerous scholarships offered to Eagle Scouts.
Elenor Says:
2 March 2011 at 6:57 pm.
As many people have said before, nothing compares to Eagle Scout. For instance a girl says they have their Girl Scouts gold and no one really cares or know what that means. However, if you say you are an Eagle Scout people look at you in awe. You get numerous scholarships, but with Girl Scouts this is lacking. Also as a Venturer myself I know that the Silver Award doesn’t mean much either. In fact, the only thing that compares to the Eagle is the Ranger award, but most people don’t even know what this is.
From being in both Girl Scouts and Venturing I see that girls have a big disadvantage here that I believe is unfair. That does not mean that I am saying to open up Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts to girls. What I am saying is why not make a branch similar to these for girls. For instance have one form of Cub Scouts just for boys and another just for girls. Same with Boy Scouts and then later on have them become co-ed in Venturing like it already is. This would give girls the same opportunities that boys have with out making them co-ed. Now since most arguments I have seen about letting girls be in scouts has been about not wanting it to be a co-ed program, I believe this shouldn’t be a problem. Girls and boys will be separate but also have the same opportunities. Wouldn’t that level out the playing field and make things a little more even?
william Says:
6 March 2011 at 2:34 pm.
If you want greater recognition for Girl Scout Gold then Build the program and market it!!!!!!!
If I want my Ford to have the same glamor and recognition as a porsche then I need Ford to build up that recognition; not force Porsche to share theirs.
You want people to understand how much work goes into Gold? Then get out there and fight for it!!!!
Eagle is Boys, Gold is Girls; now go forth and sell the programs to the people who hand out scholarships. DON’T forget all those women who earned Gold and who now run a business.
And if you are a woman who earned Gold in your younger life then get out there and make things happen for the girls who are coming up now. Do what the BSA Eagles did, build that recognition.
Nicole Says:
15 March 2011 at 9:44 pm.
I think that girls to earn the Eagle scout award. I am currently working on my gold award and have brothers and friends in boy scouts and working on their eagle scout award. The gold award is soooo much harder!! i have to spend 80 hours if work volunteering myself and the boy scouts get to add the hours put into their project by their volunteers and call them their own. I can’t believe how many scholarships are given just to boy scouts or eagle scouts. I have been completely offended by how much the eagle scout award is recognized but the gold award is not. Even when i was looking at class rings there were options for just girl scouts while there where both designs for general boy scouts and the eagle award. I think that girls deserve the same chance at these awards, scholarships and opportunities that we are not offered just by earning our gold award.
Dave Says:
16 March 2011 at 7:46 am.
NOW HOLD ON A MINUTE!!!!!
Kristi, in 1 March you said:
“My only problem with girls not being able to get an Eagle Award is that she does not have the opportunity to start 3 ranks above in the military upon enlisting. Now that is sexist without a doubt. Why shouldn’t girls get the chance to go into the military with this distintive award that lets them start at an E-3?”
You could not be further from the truth!!! I am a former Commander of a U.S. Army Recruiting Company and still serving on active duty. Women who are “GSUSA Gold Award Receipients” that enlist in any branch of service are given the same enlistment promotion considerations as men who are “BSA Eagle Scouts”. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN ENLISTMENT STANDARDS!!! Check your data before you accuse the Armed Services of serious enlistment policy flaws. I personally enlisted five women who were GSUSA Gold Award Receipients, who entered the Army as E3 Privates First Class.
I have a 16yo GS Senior Cadette who has earned her Bronze-Silver Awards and is currently working on her Gold. I have been a registered GSUSA Adult since she was a Daisy. I am a Outdoor Level III trained GSUSA Adult but I am forbidden from being her GS Troop Leader, because of my gender. I have taken more GS training courses than any leader in our GS Council, yet I am forbidden to be a leader because of my gender. Further, when a leader changes Councils in the GSUSA, their training does not follow. This is a rediculus policy. Not much has changed with the GSUSA in my ten years as a registered GSUSA Adult.
Boy Scouts on the other hand allows women in every leadership position in the organization. My wife has been an Assisstant Scoutmaster and now a Venture Crew Advisor. Yes, it is rare to see Women in Troop Scoutmaster positions but I know of a few. Unlike GSUSA, BSA does not forbid it. In my ten years experience with GSUSA, men are treated as second-class citizens and potential perverts. Any GS Leader with anytime in the organization knows this but fails to address it to the next level. The Girl Scouts policies indecisiveness and spineless leadership is their biggest threat and will eventually be their downfall if they don’t change.
With all that said, I don’t want the GSUSA to fail because in addition to a 16yo daughter, I have a 10yo Junior GS who is working on her Bronze, with a goal of being a triple crown Gold Award receipient. The GS organization at her level is highly functional and operates outside the normal parameters and does the High Adventure Activities. Leaders are the key here.
GS Golden Eagle-First Class-Gold Award Receipients do not promote the existance of their “Coveted” award like the BSA Eagle Scouts do. Yes, there is a Life-time GSUSA membership parents may buy for their Gold Award GS but it is nothing like the National Eagle Scout Association. Not even in the same galaxy close.
Do my girls desire the honors and priviledges of Eagle Scouts? Yes, but what they want more is their Gold Award to be more meaningful than take something that is not theirs.
David, how can you say all this… In addition to my two Girl Scouts, I have five soon to be Eagle Scout, LIFE rank Boy Scouts ages 12-17 at home also. I have been a registered BSA Adult Leader for over fifteen years and served at National-Region-Council-District and the unit Pack-Troop-Crew levels. Yes, I think I know what I’m talking about.
GSUSA refuses to bring their organization out of the High Rent District of 5th Ave NYC, NY to a more reasonable and affordable location. BSA used to be there and they did it.
GSUSA refuses to recognize that Junior-Cadette-Senior-Ambassador Scouts should be organizational leaders. The Girl Scouts don’t have the same leadership experience as the Boy Scouts because it is not a Girl Scout Unit function. The Armed Forces and businesses know this. However, to maintain equality in the enlistment policies, the US Gvt recognizes the Gold Award. Businesses a forced to adopt this also. What are they banking on? Leadership Qualities!!! I know, I’m a officer that recognizes the difference in soldiers every day. To reach Eagle Scout, my five boys need a minimum of 18 months of leadership time and complete a LEADERSHIP and Service Project. Leadership is not a focus in the GSUSA. If it was, the organization would be different. Why is it that a typical Boy Scout unit is 40-70 boys with numerous adult leaders versus the typical GS unit might not have more than 15 but more likely 8 with as many adults. Boy Scout Troops are boy led organizations. Girl Scout Troops are not unless the Troop leader allows it. Its has not been programed into the GS Troops from the National Organization.
If the GSUSA organization wants its girls to be recognized as leaders of tomorrow, then they need to join the 21st century and get back to their roots of what Juliette Gordon Lowe, Lord and Lady Baden-Powell meant for their Girl Scouts and Girl Guides, instead of this flimsy GSUSA organization. Boy Scouts of America is not at fault for the GSUSA failure to become the dream.
Leave the Eagle Scout Rank alone and make the Gold Award what it needs to be.
I have made no accusations just observations in my own “Little” world of scouting.
Long time Scouter Says:
16 March 2011 at 3:44 pm.
It sounds like you are arguing for separate but equal. This is an example of where the glass ceiling begins. Its an adept way to keep girls from having the same opportunities as boys, making it more difficult for women to achieve the same accomplishments as men.
I think the Boy Scout program does amazing things for boys. But it also fails by teaching them they should be separate from girls.
Lisa Says:
22 March 2011 at 5:23 pm.
I am in awe. How many boys want to earn the Gold Award? It all boils down to women wanting equal rights. YOU HAVE THEM. Let boys be boys and girls be girls. Similar award, different gender. So many women are so determined to push past the achievements of men, just to prove that they can do the same or better. I honestly don’t believe that they are doing it for the honor that comes with being an Eagle Scout. Same honor is there for the Gold in GS, go for that instead.
Eagle Scout Says:
3 April 2011 at 10:16 pm.
The Boy Scouts consider things like this because membership numbers are dropping like a cannonball in the ocean. They created Tiger Cubs to shore up falling membership numbers. BSA is losing influence amongst youth – and is seen as an activity for fat nerdy kids who can’t do sports by most.
These days, kids who do sports are dragged to practice every night by parents who think they are going to retire on their son’s sports success. They must think that, because the amount of time devoted to junior and high school sports is unbelievable.
What’s worse is that BSA has lost it’s edginess it had in the 1940’s and 1950’s. It was seen as something hard to do. Getting to first class was a HUGE accomplishment, and usually a boy had to be in excellent physical condition and a seasoned outdoorsman to make that rank. An Eagle Scout wasn’t that big of a deal – it was just someone who did some academic merit badges in their later teen years on top of their mighty first class badge.
These days, a kid that weighs 300 pounds has his first class badge handed to him because he studies “how to be a good family member” thanks to the Mormon Church having taken over the National Executive Board. Look at the ridiculous board of review process and endless merit badges dedicated to citizenship. Come on! How can you be a first class scout who promises on his honor to be physically strong when you have a 52″ waist!
If BSA wants to bring members back, then being a Boy Scout needs to be tough. It should be hard. It should be something that most boys can’t handle. If a girl can do it, then the program is too soft. It should require physical fitness, not just suggest it. It should require outdoorsmanship and high adventure, not just car camping at a state park. Shooting, riding, orienteering, advanced first aid, archery, swimming, hiking, camping, backpacking, wilderness survival, pioneering, lifesaving – this is what scouting should be.
Less obviousness of a character program and more tough, rugged, tests of manhood.
If your daughter could be an eagle scout, then eagle scout has become too easy.
You transexuals need to stay hidden. Once a transexual – no longer an Eagle Scout according to the Mormons who run BSA. They will strike you from the roster and even physically seize your badge.
Fox Says:
6 April 2011 at 5:25 am.
I am a 2010 Eagle Scout.
Alright, look: The argument as to whether the Eagle Scout award should be attainable by females is actually irrelevant.
A far more salient argument would be practical application. Assuming that girls are allowed to attain the Eagle award also assumes that they are affiliated with a BSA troop and in a co-ed situation with other scouting age boys (10-17).
Why does no one see the issue with this? I can tell you from personal experience that boys that age are nigh-obsessed with sex and that every joke told without an adult’s presence has at the very least some kind of sexual overtone. I can also tell you that inside the tents, in the dark of night, curious and hormonally-raging male youth can reach the point of physical experimentation with their bodies.
Often young males resort to sexual experimentation with other males simply because of the lack of an availability of females (personal experience, autobiographies of others). You don’t think that the presence of females will incline boys to go experiment with them? Can you soundly and inarguably make the case that a boy won’t sneak over to a female tent in the dark of night when the adults are asleep? Can you really tell me that there’s no chance that some youth will engage in premature sex or illicit activity?
It’s far less a question of the award’s disparate significance and far more of a question of application in the real world. This nitpicking of what it means to be a Boy Scout or to earn the Gold Award pale in comparison to the very real possibility that a co-ed environment out in the wilderness with kids and teenagers of that age might take a turn for the worse.
But let’s just assume that boys and girls are perfect and no girl will ever hear an inappropriate sex joke or be ridiculed by boys for her inability to lead, and that no boy would ever even consider soliciting sex or masturbation from a girl. Let’s assume that human psychology suddenly ceases to exist and the issue becomes the award significance alone:
If girls don’t receive the same recognition for earning Gold Award as boys do for earning Eagle, then the first observation would be that Gold is somehow less significant or easier to obtain. I reviewed the Gold Award requirements that Hilary provided to the official GSUSA website. The workbook for an Eagle Project and for the project necessary to obtain Gold are indeed comparable, but also disparate. The Eagle workbook lists specific steps to be taken to complete the project whereas the Gold workbook seems to have some rather abstract “do research on an issue, take steps to solve it.” The Eagle workbook has an area where you list donations received, record specific names and hours spent by volunteers to your project, even what you spent on the project and exactly what you bought.
The Gold workbook had no such specificity. The areas to fill in were small and only dealt with the Girl Scout’s record of events and emotional responses to said events. The Eagle workbook has entire blank pages to intended to be scrawled with precise documentation of how the project will be carried out. Before my project was approved I had a full 6 pages of project description, including subheadings and a table of materials to be used. I don’t pretend to have nearly as much knowledge as some of the commentators here as concerns the GSUSA, but outwardly the Gold Award project requirements appear to be rather simplistic.
I agree with some of the latter arguments. If you desire Gold Award to have as much significance as Eagle, make it so. The resolution is not to complain about the issue and have a boy-only award provided to girls so they can have the same prestige.
Fox Says:
6 April 2011 at 5:31 am.
I am a 2010 Eagle Scout.
Alright, look: The argument as to whether the Eagle Scout award should be attainable by females is actually irrelevant.
A far more salient argument would be practical application. Assuming that girls are allowed to attain the Eagle award also assumes that they are affiliated with a BSA troop and in a co-ed situation with other scouting age boys (10-17).
Why does no one see the issue with this? I can tell you from personal experience that boys that age are nigh-obsessed with sex and that every joke told without an adult’s presence has at the very least some kind of sexual overtone. I can also tell you that inside the tents, in the dark of night, curious and hormonally-raging male youth can reach the point of physical experimentation with their bodies.
Often young males resort to sexual experimentation with other males simply because of the lack of an availability of females (personal experience, autobiographies of others). You don’t think that the presence of females will incline boys to go experiment with them? Can you soundly and inarguably make the case that a boy won’t sneak over to a female tent in the dark of night when the adults are asleep? Can you really tell me that there’s no chance that some youth will engage in premature sex or illicit activity?
It’s far less a question of the award’s disparate significance and far more of a question of application in the real world. This nitpicking of what it means to be a Boy Scout or to earn the Gold Award pale in comparison to the very real possibility that a co-ed environment out in the wilderness with kids and teenagers of that age might take a turn for the worse.
But let’s just assume that boys and girls are perfect and no girl will ever hear an inappropriate sex joke or be ridiculed by boys for her inability to lead, and that no boy would ever even consider soliciting sex or masturbation from a girl. Let’s assume that human psychology suddenly ceases to exist and the issue becomes the award significance alone:
If girls don’t receive the same recognition for earning Gold Award as boys do for earning Eagle, then the first observation would be that Gold is somehow less significant or easier to obtain. I reviewed the Gold Award requirements that Hilary provided to the official GSUSA website. The workbook for an Eagle Project and for the project necessary to obtain Gold are indeed comparable, but also disparate. The Eagle workbook lists specific steps to be taken to complete the project whereas the Gold workbook seems to have some rather abstract “do research on an issue, take steps to solve it.” The Eagle workbook has an area where you list donations received, record specific names and hours spent by volunteers to your project, even what you spent on the project and exactly what you bought.
The Gold workbook had no such specificity. The areas to fill in were small and only dealt with the Girl Scout’s record of events and emotional responses to said events. The Eagle workbook has entire blank pages to intended to be scrawled with precise documentation of how the project will be carried out. Before my project was approved I had a full 6 pages of project description, including subheadings and a table of materials to be used. I don’t pretend to have nearly as much knowledge as some of the commentators here as concerns the GSUSA, but outwardly the Gold Award project requirements appear to be rather simplistic, reducing the significance of actually earning the award.
I agree with some of the latter arguments. If you desire Gold Award to have as much significance as Eagle, make it so. The resolution is not to complain about the issue and have a boy-only award provided to girls so they can have the same prestige.
Fox Says:
23 April 2011 at 11:44 pm.
To Eagle Scout, who posted on April 3 2011:
You bigoted fool. Perhaps getting to first class was, in your time, an accomplishment revered even over that of Eagle Scout but in the current times I can tell you unequivocally that First Class does not even compare to Eagle Scout. Eagle Scout is indubitably the grand crowning achievement of scouting and anyone who says otherwise is ignorant.
I won’t argue that getting Eagle Scout may have become easier over time, but your unbelievably bigoted statement that “If a girl can do it, then the program is too soft,” is completely unfounded, sexist, and pathetically mired in traditionalist views on masculinity. Believe it or not, society has changed from the ’40s and ’50s to paint boys in a different light: that no boy should have to keep his feelings hidden for the security of others; that no boy should be *required* to be in excellent physical shape. You opine your ignorance and sexism in saying that women are (or should be) incapable of obtaining Eagle. I have no doubt that there are some determined women that would gladly take on the challenge, if they were able.
I have no idea where this Mormon Church thing came from, but I can tell you that there are exactly three merit badges specifically dedicated to citizenship, and 21 required merit badges for Eagle. That’s about 14% of the required merit badges. Besides which, you seem to make it out that citizenship requirements are somehow bad and should preferably be replaced with some kind of masculine challenge like climbing. I ask you, what does that prove in a boy? That he can climb a rock? Since I earned the merit badges to get Eagle, it proves that I proved to my councilor that I can be a good citizen in my community, in my nation, and in the world. Those are valuable qualities. Those are sought qualities in a person interviewing for a job. Not the ability to tie knots, make a fire, or climb a rock.
You clearly state that most boys shouldn’t be able to handle scouting and certainly a girl shouldn’t. I assume those 52″ inch waist boys shouldn’t even attempt it either. I ask you, then, how would you prefer those overweight boys get into shape? Does scouting not teach and advocate the values of physical fitness? Isn’t a program wherein a boy can *learn* fitness invaluable to an unfit child? Or would you rather the fat children spawn determination out of thin air and get into shape before they even think of joining scouting? Indeed, shouldn’t a girl who is already in shape and willing to take on the challenge of earning Eagle certainly be allowed to do so over a fat boy, in your view? Apparently not, since your narrow-minded view of the world seems to be that men should be masculine breadwinners and women should stay in their place: at home.
As a side note: all those activities you listed are already included in scouting. A scout need only put forth the effort to earn the badge for them.
Mike Hoffman Says:
13 May 2011 at 6:08 pm.
Of course a girl could earn the Eagle award. But, there is no program for them to do that. Truth be told most Eagle awards today are earned by the mothers of Life Scouts. The Venturing program is co-ed Scouting. Venturing started in the U.S. over ten years ago so that the BSA could host the upcoming World Jamboree, (read catch up with the rest of the world). Venturing does not replace Exploring. Exploring still exists as a program under the Learning for Life Division of the BSA. The reason for that is wrapped up in a supreme court decision. So for now young ladies you can work toward Venturing’s Silver award or Ranger award or even Sea Scouts Quartermaster Award. And girls don’t make fun of the scouts when their mommys call a merit badge councilor for them. The boys are a bit slower in the social skills department.
You Gotta Be Kidding Me!!! Says:
19 May 2011 at 12:25 pm.
Mike,
You seem to know a “Little” about scouting, seeing your statement describes some accurate program information about Venturing and Exploring…. but that’s about the extent of it…
NO!!! Truth be told you have your head firmly up your fourth point of contact. You gotta be kidding me!!! Truth be told???? WHAAAAT!!! You just made a totally unqualified statement that most Eagle requirements are earned by the LIFE Scouts’ mother.
So, when you say “Most” that means over half. I bet ya didn’t know that there is over a million EAGLE SCOUTS on record since the first EAGLE SCOUT in August 1912. So, you’re saying there are over half a million Eagle Scouts out there who haven’t earned their honors. Pull your head out a little so you can hear the world laughing at you. You are such a fool to even try to qualify that statement.
I wonder what Dirty Jobs’ Mike Rowe, Astronaut Neil Armstrong, Former President Ford and Secretary of Defense Gates would say to you about your statement about their EAGLE SCOUT achievement. This statement dishonors the hardwork and dedication of ALL Scouts!!! There is absolutely no way you can qualify that statement…. IMPOSSIBLE!!! I am a Research Analyst… So don’t even try.
Your mother may have held your hand to Eagle but that’s not the case everywhere. If your mother did, then in the Research Analysis World, we would call you an “Out-Lier”. You sound more like a bitter moron who couldn’t measure up and quit because it was too hard.
If you are a registered “Scouter” then you need to struck from the rolls and barred from scouting.
I have five hardworking LIFE SCOUTS at home working on their Eagle Projects. They are doing it on their own. I have known hundreds of EAGLE SCOUTS and they all have deserved it. Yes the boys can’t possibly do it all on their own… That is an impossible obstacle to expect from a 12-17 yo boy. Parents are involved as they should be. Adult mentors and Scoutmasters are also involved.
I bet there isn’t anything you ever accomplished totally on your own. If you have then a one handed clap for you hero.
Hmmm… I wonder who Mike “Oxygen Burner” Hoffman is? I’m gonna dig around… Well, that was easy… I didn’t have to go very far and found his picture in an internet search engine under “Village Idiot”.
Ladies and Gentlemen, you should be as insulted as I am. EAGLE SCOUTS and BRONZE-SILVER-GOLD AWARD Receipients put years of hardwork into their achievments. Even if some did have their mother’s hold their hand through this process, this is still an incredible achievement. I would know, I have five sons and two daughters currently earning their achievements.
Mike, I have some homework for you, if you’re up to the challenge. Research for yourself what the requirements for EAGLE SCOUT are. NO-NO, not just EAGLE… smart guy That’s cheating, you must include in your research project, all the requirements for every rank up through EAGLE SCOUT. Uh-huh… Yeah, a lot isn’t it. I would say that “MOST” of it is impossible for the scouts’ mother to accomplish…. Like hmmm… say nights camping.
Ladies and Gents… Scouts and Scouters….
My apologies… It’s ignorant people like Mike, who bring out the worst in me.
YiS
Dave
Fox Says:
24 May 2011 at 5:54 am.
To “You Gotta Be Kidding Me!!!” who posted on the 19th of May:
News for you, Mr. research analyst. As a 2010 Eagle Scout very very recently involved in a troop of over 100 registered scouts and scouters and an active participation at meetings and campouts of generally over 30 youth on monthly weekend campouts and 60 youth on long-term camps, I can tell you unequivocally that most, meaning over half, of Eagle Scout awards are earned by the mothers and/or fathers of Life Scouts.
Unless you have similar involvement in a similarly high-participation Boy Scout troop, I daresay that your skills with research and analysis pale in comparison to what researchers would call firsthand or primary experience. I am also friends of many scouts and their parents who would confirm Mike’s and my understanding of the Eagle Scout commendation. There are actually over 2 million Eagle Scouts (a statistic it seems like a research analyst may well be aware of) and while I wouldn’t say that past Eagle Scouts generally earned their awards by way of their parents, I think what Mike was trying to say was that today’s Eagle Scout awards are generally bestowed to the boys whereas most of the workload recognition should really go to the parents.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that over 1 million of the total 2 million Eagle Scouts in history earned their awards mostly through the effort of their parents, since that statement would encompass earlier times when more was expected of boys and young men. I would say, however, that post-1980’s Eagle Scout awards have been mostly bestowed to scouts who owe most of the effort to earn the award to their parents.
I can indeed qualify the statement that today’s Eagle awards are earned mostly by the parents of Life Scouts based on firsthand experience beyond that of mere statistics. Those famous people you listed I’m sure would be appalled that someone would insinuate that they haven’t earned their award; that really the effort was their parents’. However, what you seem to fail to understand is that even the scout whose parents really did earn the award for him would be equally as appalled. Of course every scout believes it was his own valiance that earned him the Eagle Scout award. I’m sure none are willing to admit otherwise. You failed to include in your “analysis” of the situation the “hundreds of EAGLE SCOUTS (sic)” that have “… all… deserved it.” Odd, since a research analyst would seem like the first to refute an ‘all’ or ‘never’ statistic, since such statistics are incredibly rare.
Your attack on Mike for what you perceive to be his scouting experience is completely unfounded. You have no idea whether he himself or perhaps his sons were raised to earn the Eagle award entirely on their own merit and he is here lamenting the observation that many Eagle awards are not earned through the merit of the Eagle candidate himself. Perhaps your attacks would be better directed to information you already have at your disposal as opposed to speculation.
I hear you have Life scouts hard at work on their own Eagle projects and for that I commend you as a father. However, your experience and your boys’ experience are not everyone’s; and I can tell you that, indeed, many Eagle awards are earned by the parents of Life scouts.
Pack Trainer Says:
1 June 2011 at 9:06 pm.
Geee, I feel so jiped! My mom didn’t help me with anything except provide transportation. My Scoutmasters ensured that the boys did their own work. My Dad did buy me some sweet camping equipment. Does that count as unfair assistance? I don’t even see how a Mom can complete requirements work. Please explain Mr. Hoffman.
Eagle Scout Says:
1 June 2011 at 9:24 pm.
Personally, I think that the Eagle Scout award should be reserved for pure Boy Scouting, not Venturing (of either sex), Exploring (of any kind), or Varsity Scouting (a gay version of scouting).
Mike Davis Says:
26 June 2011 at 4:43 pm.
This is as simple as it gets. There are simply some things that need to stay gender specific in life. I am not old, but am very old school. I was against girls getting to join into any type of Boy Scouts of America activities, functions, etc. All this did was open up more issues for leaders to worry about on outdoor adventures. Venturing was created to ease such isssues (demanding leaders of both genders and giving many outdoor experiences desired) and there is this group called Girl Scouts of America, last I checked. No problem. I know many a young lady who can not only handle the outdoors, but can outdo some of the boys. Awesome. But that is where the line should be drawn. If there is such a demand for something like the Eagle rank, then redo your own requirements and ranking to create your own prestige. Do not demand to take part of every aspect of Boy Scouts, if you are not a boy and not in the BSA. I do not feel anyone should be able to earn the Eagle Rank if not in BSA. Simple enough. Create your own, do not demand OUR prestege.
Eagle Scout Aug. 1987
Father of a Boy Scout and a Girl Scout.
BSA and GSUSA Leaser Says:
4 October 2011 at 4:11 am.
OK as a BSA and GSUSA Leader. I have read through this forum and must say a lot of interesting comments and statements
Scout and venture Leader Says:
9 October 2011 at 3:32 pm.
Unless the Scouting movement wants to be reduced to irrelevancy it must become more inclusive. My 20+ years of experience has shown only positive results from bringing girls into scouting through the Venture program.
JR Says:
20 October 2011 at 6:48 pm.
Well, maybe that’s just one of the hills (just like gay adult leaders) that the national office is going to choose to die on.
I agree; crews, posts and ships should have the rank of Eagle available to ALL members, regardless of prior registration or rank. Granted, the programs are not designed around rank advancement, but it should still be available. At the same time, make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that packs and troops will remain male-only…guarantee boys and young men the all-male environment they need.
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Mary Lehman Says:
17 January 2012 at 12:50 am.
If you are going to allow us to everything else with the Boy Scouts, why are rank advancements not included? The “equivalent” award in Venturing is nothing compared to the Eagle. it’s the 21st century and we like to be equal to men. When the eagle Scout award was first created, it was to train boys while the women stayed home and managed the house. Today men and women both need the “training” to handle life. If women are allowed to advance in the military why can’t women advance in scouts?
